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open letter to softimage

Leonardo | 02 Dezembro, 2006 10:56


 

 SoftImage Website

 

I've been feeling tired of working as a free-lancer in the software-loc market, specially dissatisfied of doing it from home so I decided to start looking around for opportunities and thought it would be a good idea to start with the company whose final product I appreciate the most, SoftImage.

 


So last Tuesday I sent them my résumé accompanied by the cover letter below which I decided to share with you since I truly and deeply believe in the necessity of the changes  proposed in it. Feel free to show your support in the comments section if you care and share the same belief.

 

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Dear SoftImage People,

 

Beforehand, a word of warning is demanded: This is not your regular “Cover Letter”. Still, I hope it reaches the right hands, whom, hopefully, will bear with me.

 

My name is Leonardo Cortes and I am a Brazilian living in Montréal for the past year. Although not being directly involved with any facets of the 3D market in a professional capacity, I started to investigate it two years ago as a personal agenda. After a long research and debating myself hardly with all the intricacies of such a complex market filled with complex applications (all from the perspective of someone who wasn’t even familiar with the term ‘3D mesh’), I came to the clear conclusion that the best (by far) overall 3D animation package available was also the one with the smallest market share among the main competitors: SoftImage’s XSI.

 

During this period, lots of good things happened and SoftImage’s strong marketing moves, such as the “3D Love Tour”, coupled with the persuasive argument of such a high quality release in version 5, spiced up by tidbits of the then upcoming FaceRobot really helped improve matters. More schools adopted XSI, new XSI communities were formed, more books and video training kits were released. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) the competition is not dead and even if backed up by Avid, SoftImage cannot ignore the empire created by Autodesk’s acquisition of Alias. Not only that, but even smaller companies with less inclusive packages, such as Luxology’s Modo, are turning into real contenders in specific areas. It goes without saying that this market is becoming more and more porous and compartmentalized each day.

 

It is my understanding that if SoftImage is to prevail as the best 3D animation package and significantly expand its market share, while it must cater for the high end industry with hundred thousand dollar packages such as FaceRobot, concurrently it ought to sow the seeds for a market conversion based on the individual. There is no denial that there has been a strong trend for an artist’s centric solution in which pipelines become more flexible to adapt to whatever tasks (and software packages) at hand, thus ratifying the ultimate truth that, at the end of the day, it’s them, the artists, who will dictate what software package will be used in current productions. It’s the people who will drive the market, not the other way around.

 

With this very important premise in mind, SoftImage must take a much more proactive attitude towards the expansion of the user base, which ultimately will converge into higher sales figures. As I am sure you know by experience, this is easier said than done. But there is a huge opportunity often disregarded by most software houses. Actually, “disregarded” is not the best term, but a rather under-estimated and thus under-utilized opportunity: the “Learning Editions”. SoftImage has a great policy for the “Learning Editions” of XSI. What it fails to understand is the proper definition of “learner”. SoftImage, as well as all other software companies, insist on characterizing someone who is interest in learning the ropes of XSI as a formal student. While this is certainly true for several people, it is also a total denial of the Internet time we live in! And I mean this in a much broader meaning than this paragraph might have encompassed. Allow me to elaborate.

 

We live in a time of endless possibilities, information is largely available thus making the dynamics of personal life options much faster and easier to follow. There is a vast number of people all over the world who are now turning their heads to 3D animation for one reason or another but not all of them (I would say a great part of them) are encouraged to follow through, they are actually discouraged not only because of the field’s competitiveness itself, but mostly due to the lack of financial resources to invest in learning a tool as complex as XSI. Sometimes, this is not the single problem. Chances are very slim that all around the world people who become interested in learning XSI will have a school available at reach. If he or she is lucky enough to have an animation school nearby, truth be told, chances are it will be a Maya based school. Other times, the potential “learner” (not student) is already past school time or is already paying for school loans because he or she did not know better when they had to choose their field of study at such an early stage in life and now they wish to delve into 3D. But how???

 

Proof of the increasing number of such group of people is the growing success of companies such as Digital Tutors, 3D Tutorial, Gnomon, Kurv Studios, 3DQuakers and so many others. Now, if we put aside for a moment the current (hypocritical) moral standards, how many people who try self-teaching XSI using such tools actually have a registered XSI license? Even how many of them actually paid for the video-tutorials themselves? Like it or not, legal or not, XSI and many other applications are just a click away and who can actually say that never broke a single IP rule? MP3’s, movies, books, applications, operating systems, whatever! So if even in a scenario like this the video-tutoring companies are prospering, it means that a good part of all the people interested in learning XSI is actually overcoming whatever barriers and running unregistered copies of the software (trial versions don’t cut it forever!). And of these people, at least some are actually supporting the video-tutoring companies. So how can SoftImage change the current situation to their advantage?

 

The answer is simple but two-fold. First SoftImage must acknowledge that one does not necessarily need to be a registered student at some school to be a “learner”. Second, SoftImage must understand that the real barrier against software piracy is business ethics, not personal. This doesn’t mean in any away that individuals don’t have ethics. On the contrary! As I said in the beginning of this letter, the individual should be the focus of this revolution and SoftImage should trust on their ethics. Simply put, I propose that SoftImage offer each and every video-tutoring company or book publisher who sells specialized content about XSI the chance to sell “XSI Learning Editions” to their customers. This would definitely be a bold move but would show the world the clear understanding SoftImage has of the time and world we live in and its challenges.

 

Let’s give it a quick analysis. If all the people in world who aspire to one day becoming a 3D animation professional actually realize they have a shot at it at a very reasonable entry ticket by combining both, software and education, what sort of reaction could be expected? Also, learners (again, not students) who are currently “in the dark” would be able to come out and aspiring individuals would have a real motivation because finally SoftImage had led the way by understanding that **as long as someone does not make money out of XSI, they are all “learners”, thus eligible customers to the Learning Edition Series**. They are all fair game because they would be financially supporting the company while expanding the user base at a much faster (and needed) rate, so that at the end, those who actually transition to a professional life would do so having XSI as their main development tool, thus bolstering XSI sales in the professional market as a consequence. This, of course, is not even taking into consideration that each new user would become a potential XSI evangelist, exponentially increasing possibilities.

 

Playing with numbers: Assuming a conservative supposition that 20,000 people per month, all over the world, consider learning a 3D package. Also consider that only 20% of them actually become interested in XSI. Let’s say all this empirical suppositions of mine are ridiculously insane so we will cut down the current 4,000/month potential XSI students (I guess now we can call them students, right?) to 1,000/month. Of these, let’s say that only half will actually pursue their goals by purchasing the “Learning Edition” + tutorial material. So we are talking about 500 additional “Learning” copies sold per month! Again, my guesstimates might be totally off and if you are reading this, you probably have access to the figures and are capable of a better evaluation yourself. Then again, more important than an immediate income is the actual enlargement of the user base, which will undoubtedly lead to an expansion of XSI adoption by studios all over the world, as a side effect, in the not too distant future.

 

I cannot stress enough the fact that if an individual who is really determined to learn XSI, if necessary, will probably do so by illicit means. Instead of condemning this individual, SoftImage should nurture his interest by giving him a feasible access to learning version of the software. This approach will create a solid mutual respect and admiration and pave the way for future businesses. Naturally, the naysayers following their pattern of avoiding changes will argument that this marketing approach would lead to a decrease in sales of the regular XSI versions. Fear not! As I said before, business ethics will still be there to leverage the market. It may happen that a rookie free-lance animator might do his first or second paid job based on the Learning Edition of XSI but we all know that at the end of the day, the professional 3D circuit is not exactly gigantic and if not led by ethics, sheer embarrassment and lack of work (yes, reputation is still a player) will lead to purchases of XSI’s regular packages.

 

Truly, I do not understand how come so many software companies fail to acknowledge the reality of the world we live in today and take advantage of it. If Microsoft is wise enough to offer OEM versions of their Operational Systems to those who buy a hard drive alone, why wouldn’t SoftImage, with a much more specialized piece of software, offer XSI Learning Edition to someone purchasing Digital Tutors XSI Basics, for instance? Lastly, please don’t reach for the shorter “escape route” by stating the availability of a free 30-day trial version of Essentials. SoftImage is on the verge of XSI 6. What a great moment also for a marketing evolution!

 

As I said in the beginning, this is not your regular “Cover Letter” and although I am not applying for any specific position, hopefully it will serve as some food for thought from an outsider’s point of view and maybe, just maybe, it will land me a job interview at SoftImage in concert to my true admiration of this company’s labor.

 

Congratulations on the 20th anniversary and best regards,

 

 

Leonardo Côrtes.

 
[Responder]

I read your letter and even if I do thinks a lot like you, I don't think you could anyhow accept the piracy!

You'll never be able to go against it, that's maybe a fact, but if you want to use a piece of software it's obvoious you got to buy it... you owe that kind of respect to people who are working and making everything to code the software as you need it.

And in this state of mind I think lots of people (and even more than that) will rather like to pay 495 $ to get a real piece of software that do almost better than competitor software than having a free tagged, limlited and uncomplete version of the application they wanna try...

The "3D democracy" was the best idea a 3D software editor like Softimage ever had (after the one of Blender being totaly free of course !!).

just my point of view

have a nice day

Garfield39 | 02/12/2006, 17:24

 
[Responder]

Likewise, these days people don't value education and also feel that it should be for free as well.

Just look on the P2P's and you will find rips of all the vendors you've mentioned (including 3dtutorial) represented. The fact of the matter is that the whole market has changed (as you've pointed out) and people no longer support producers of education as they once did in sufficient numbers to maintain a sustainable business - sad but true. Sure, many more people have now entered the arena but this has only caused saturation of the market and devalued training even further with the end result being that all the small players (such as myself) are being squeezed out in favour of a very limited number of developers with deep pockets. Is that a good thing? Well, only time will tell. In any event, the training & education market is not nearly as large as you would suggest, nor as lucrative.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I can tell you based on the current climate and the general attitudes such as you've outlined, I don't feel encouraged to produce any further XSI based training content in future.

Joe Saltzman
Director
3dtutorial.com
New Jersey, USA
Ask about our 3D Head/Face Scanning Service!

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 17:26

 
[Responder]

Hello Joe,

Wouldn't it be possible that if SoftImage created an alliance with small training shops such as yours that it would help both companies? Don't you think 3D Tutorial would sell more packages *if* they could be bought with XSI's learning versions??

For SoftImage, the extra income might be minimal, but not the long term result of drastically expanding the user base, while for 3D Tutorial (and similar companies) the immediate increase in sales of educational packages would be very welcome, I suppose. Good for SI in the long term and good for training shops in the short term.

On the other hand, we can keep the current attitude and just expect the worse from everyone. It's the current situation that is taking you out of business, not what I am proposing! Maybe it's time to change.

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 17:27

 
[Responder]

I agree, it would be great if Softimage would support smaller training providers such as 3dtutorial and others - sadly, they do not.

Like I said, I no longer feel any desire to support Softimage.

What goes around, comes around.

Why should I continue to support a company that offers me no support whatsoever?

Why would anyone?

Joe Saltzman
Director
3dtutorial.com
New Jersey, USA
Ask about our 3D Head/Face Scanning Service!

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 17:28

 
[Responder]

Hello,

i know every valuable tool is cr@cked on 2P but you see i am still buying my licenses, although i don't have a big amount of money ....
I hope you will release more XSI content cmagic.
People use cr**cked versions of very expensive tools for self-training, excepet when there is a training philosiphy like houdini free and watermarked, or XSI foundation 1 month trial, and econmic full featured production toool, or silo 109 euro pricing etc...
There will always be people using cr***cks and producing ugly images and others limiting their toolsets, but going in a more professional way.

janimatic | 02/12/2006, 17:28

 
[Responder]

I fully understand this.

Make NO mistake, I understand and agree that every form of software and/or training can and/or will be cr@cked and is available via P2P's and other sources - this is a fact of life today and nothing is going to change it.

This is why I no longer copy-protect my material, as doing so is a waste of time and energy.

However, the point I am trying to get across is while a "small" number of people are good and loyal supporters and do purchase training this is quite limited in number and sadly now the minority. The sad fact is that the number of people who will support small training companies such as mine are simply not enough to amount to a sustainable level on which to run a business.

Simply put, given the numbers and current "trends", a small developer can't survive today because the market has eaten itself alive.

It's true.

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 17:29

 
[Responder]

" I don't feel encouraged to produce any further XSI based training content in future."

I'm so sorry you feel that way ! Even if I can understand because of the economy... but loosing a part what does XSI a well known package is something sad...
I do support people who do trainning kit (even if I can't afford to buy more often) and I think loosing someone like you would be a great lost for the XSI community... but once again... economy... of course...understandable...

who knows, maybe one day we will live trying just to improve ourself...looking to the stars...where no one has gone before...

Live long and Prosper

Garfield39 | 02/12/2006, 17:30

 
[Responder]

It´s a good Idea. Does anybody here think that, for instance, Digital tutors videos, are for pepole who have bought a 7000$ app, and don´t know how to start it och create a sphere? No, of course it´s for pepole with cr@cks trying to learn the program! I can´t understand why softimage is blind to this. Why must pepole be a criminal to have an oppertunity to learn a computer program?
But on the other hand. Maybe softimage think that the cr@cks are the learning versions, without the obligation for softimage to support all these users. Quite smart actully...
But in the long run, I don´t think its a good stategy.

There must be a reason for having a non working copyprotection. it´s 2006 and there must be a way of protecting software if you really want to.

PS I work for a gamecompany a few years ago, with 70 pepole using maya and photoshop. they had 2 maya licences and 5 for photoshop.... There must be worth something to get the cr@cks out of the market?!?!?

masterofacid | 02/12/2006, 17:31

 
[Responder]

SoftImage has always been one of my Fav Companies to work for, enough that I would probably work for free at SoftImage in my spare time just to get involved with a company as such... although I have had no personal experience in working at SoftImage directly, I have been working with Lead X-Programmers and X-Biz Development people from SoftImage for some time now directly... and I can truly tell you being among them you definitly know that SoftImage Co. is like the "Secret Project" where only the most dedicated and smart people got to work.

That said, I am sure that SoftImage's Marketing division is not any less and I am sure they are always cooking something new to boost up their market share. The sad part is that SoftImage is not that "Montreal's DownTown" company anymore.... It has been aquired by Microsoft and then sold to Avid... even if SoftImage would want to consider the given options by 'Muttley', it won't be be as easy as it sounds... getting this idea and turning it into a marketing plan would need a little bit more than just a letter from 'Muttley", as he said in his letter "It’s the 'PEOPLE' who will drive the market, not the other way around".

This being said, SoftImage should also consider being a little more selective in who as an institution can teach XSI... now adays I see so many schools teaching XSI but when the students graduate, they are nothing close to 'ready for the Real World'.... how and what is being taught is also something SoftImage should take care of, else the market will be too saturated with recently graduated students looking for jobs and not ready for it. The Artists and Users are the biggest marketing tool for SoftImage, when they are not impressive, it will make companies planing on switching their pipeline to XSI rethink the idea shortening the Market Share for SoftImage in the long run.

I agree on the "Alliance" Idea above... but SoftImage should make sure that the company being added to the alliance is legit and teaching SoftImage for what it is worth and not there just to make a quick buck.

Just my two cents.

LiTtOI AaLi | 02/12/2006, 17:32

 
[Responder]

I'm not sure I should go any further, but here it is...

Take me for instance, I am **not** in the 3D market but even at the age of 37 my inner child keeps telling me to study XSI. Unfortunately, I'm bound by several other priorities both in time and money. Even if spending $500 on Essentials doesn't sound like a lot, at this very moment it's not something I can truly justify. Instead, I have purchase 3 XSI books and 5 Digital Tutors kits.

But what am I forced to do if I still want to learn XSI?? I have to format my HD and re-install the trial version. Even so, it's very frustrating when they mention something in the training kits which is only available on the full $7,000 version. Even more frustrating is to realize that any kid in school, who couldn't care less about XSI, has the chance to buy the Advanced version at $295 (or $175 for one year license)!! And here I am, truly interested in learning the software, having spent over $450 in training material BUT I'm not allowed to buy the software as the student who I really am.

In my opinion, not a smart marketing approach at all!!

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 17:32

 
[Responder]

"Maybe softimage think that the cr@cks are the learning versions, without the obligation for softimage to support all these users. "

Now let's take a look at what the market really is... and what do we see... that lots and lots of the youngers coming in 3D are first told about 3DSMax or Maya...why is that ? because you find them easilly on EVERY P2P around !
I even met a guy who was supposed to sell Maya licences told me that if I wanna try Maya I could get it on a website that he gave me... a warez website ! So you know...it was some years ago, but I don't things change that much in that matter....

So Maybe protecting too much could also mean loosing some market shares at the end....

People as we say... and people use what they can train on... and if you have the choice between a Cr@ked 3DSmax and a Trail, tagged, limited version of XSI, my guess is that, you, the"wannabee next 3D greatest", you'll choose the "free" Max stuff... not paying attention to the fact that you're just a criminal...

I just can't accept the idea to accept piracy ! But it will be there as long as ultraliberal Economy rule the world !

Maybe we should ask Softimage to give XSI V2 or V3 for free...with some tutorials like the ones from 3DTutorial....

Garfield39 | 02/12/2006, 17:33

 
[Responder]

euhhh

not free the tuorials... hum...I mean the soft free, sold with the tuorials... of course...

Garfield39 | 02/12/2006, 17:34

 
[Responder]

Hey ~LiTtOl_AaLi~

I agree with most of what you said, except I believe that no matter how big the user base is and how it is composed, the mediocre animators will not find their way to the market. The job opportunities, even considering an increasing market share, will only be fulfilled by competent people. I don't believe that low quality professionals will help saturate the market at all since they won't be actually considered for a position in any respected studio.

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 17:35

 
[Responder]

Hey Garfield39,

I respectfully disagree with you on this one.

Firstly, I believe that the only reason XSI is not as largely available on P2P networks as 3ds Max or Maya, as you said, is simply because XSI is not as broadly used as the other apps. If SoftImage had as many studios running XSI as Maya and 3dsMax, XSI would be the one largely available on P2P.

Secondly, when I decided to investigate the 3D segment I didn't know sqwat!! That did not prevent me from concluding (after a thorough research) that XSI was indeed the best option in the market, even if not the most popular. That said, I obviously pursued my studies with XSI, not Maya or 3ds Max.

Third, as I said, I did my homework and just because I'm a self-teaching noob it doesn't mean I (or anybody else for that purpose) think of myself as a "wannabee next 3D greatest". I know how the market works and what my slim chances are (btw, another reason preventing me from spending $500 more on it).

Lastly, making old XSI versions free is as exciting as watching ice melt. If somebody wants/decides to learn 3D, he/she is probably enthusiastic about it, so what would be the point in learning something nobody uses anymore??? Why learn something the hardest way since probably the most recent versions have simpler procedures to achieve the same (or better) results? Instead, I believe a person willing to learn, to study XSI should be treated as the true student he/she really is and if purchasing training material from SoftImage partners, he/she should be eligible to buy XSI licenses like any other student. That is, of course, my point of view...

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 17:35

 
[Responder]

I think it would be good to see beginners target seriously small freelance work, instead of always target -not seriously- the big feature film companies using hair and syflex in each scene.
Then , maybe, the beginners will consider limited versions at low price instead of using hair and syflex in ugly looking tests. And also there is more chance to do domething good if you stick to one main tool, instead of changing software everytime, unless you are alread experienced with all of them. maya prman, xsi advanced, a bit of houdini..... and in this kind of beginner will miss the most important bases.

janimatic | 02/12/2006, 18:21

 
[Responder]

When I saw that Softimage was showing Digital Tutor's people working on new XSI training I thought to myself, what about 3DTutorial? Did Softimage offered also some sort of deal to Joe?

They must have, Joe makes tutorials for Softimage for a long time now... reading your reply was sad, I mean, during a lot of time you were the only one making tutorials for XSI and incredible tutorials also, taking this into consideration anyone with a bit of brains would say: We need to support Joe first and the others after, seems this didn't happened ... why was that ?

Synopse | 02/12/2006, 18:21

 
[Responder]

yes that's really sad
I am pretty confident that it can be fixed.
But the good news is that i saw joe in the silo communauty lately !
Also it looks like 3dquakers anti-piracy system is working pretty well isn't it ?

janimatic | 02/12/2006, 18:22

 
[Responder]

Muttley, you know what ? You're right !
Old version of XSI would not be a good Idea...

Now you have your experience and I have mine... I give some trainning in a facility in my country that give the possibility to unemployed people to learn editing and 3D tools for free... and I'm facing every time a bunch of people who have never heard of XSI but who know quite well Max or Maya...

Now of course this is a market issue... and maybe you're right (again) when stating that if XSI was in more 3D houses around the world it would be largely distributed on P2P...

But I'm not sure that's the only point.... I do remeber a time when Softimage (then Soft3D) was so "untouchable" , was so reserved to high end 3D guru that you couldn't even dream of finding a tutorial anywhere except in the large manual that comes with the package... And it was a big package I can tell you !

This kind of policy is what gave Softimage the reputation to be out of reach and then forgotten by small users...
We, xsi users, today live with this heritage...well that's my vision of the whole thing...
And sometime it's hard just becaue when you finally find a job, it's often on Maya or Max...somehow because Softimage at one point of its history didn't give a damn to small users and was only concerned by ILM studio like.

Today things has changed... but still we do live with the heritage of what was then...

I even remember a presentation of Softimage Soft 3D by its CEO. A mother of a student willing to become a 3D animator ask him how comes this software was so expensive and the man replies encumbered that it was not intended to be used in a non professionnal environnement...so you know...
And at that time 3D Studio (Max ancestor) was already on every 3D fan PC

Now the idea that anyone could buy a learning edition (meaning a student editon) is interesting but then how to be sure it won't be used for commercial use...With the student edition you got an Advanced XSI for just a few hundred $

In my point of view, if you use a tool for commercial purposes, you have to pay for it.

But I have been witness of peoples not thinking the same way... then it's a tough market... if your competitor can provide the work as you do for half the price because he don't have to cover the cost of their licences, you're in trouble ! and it's not fair (world isn't, I know... but still)

I don't have a solution to propose, but one thing is sure it can't be a training version with watermark, limitation and so on... because then the cr@cked one will still be more tempting...

Garfield39 | 02/12/2006, 18:23

 
[Responder]

Hey janimatic,

I agree with you heartedly about how newcomers should approach the market! It does not invalidate the fact that students should be able to learn the whole package though.

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 18:23

 
[Responder]

Of course I know that! But would it be sucha a crazy idea to have a learing version of foundation with no visible watermarks or stuff like that, and also support these users with tutorials and limited discount offers to buy that version. P2P is here to stay, so I guess that the only way softimage can expand thier user base, is by having a superb learning and support center. And more important. They get a record of all the potential buyers, so they can target campaings to them.

I get a feeling here at this community that pepole are really afraid that softimage will go bankrupt. the only way to stop that from happening is to widen the user base. So why not start here! If you go to the tutorial page here at XSIBase, most stuff is obsolet, same under tools. So why don´t update and refresh this site to something more appeling for newbies!

Belive it or not. Your future as a Softimage users may very well be in the hands of a15 year old kid with a cr@cked version. His or hers adoption of XSI is very important for all of US!

XSI for everybody!

masterofacid | 02/12/2006, 18:32

 
[Responder]

Hey Garfield,

Thanks a lot for bringing your experience to the table!!

You are right when you talk about old versions as a learning tool to unfavored people/countries. I can totally understand and support that.

Getting back to your concern about unfair competition, that situation is something I covered in my letter and if you allow me, I'll bring an excerpt

=======
Fear not! As I said before, business ethics will still be there to leverage the market. It may happen that a rookie free-lance animator might do his first or second paid job based on the Learning Edition of XSI but we all know that at the end of the day, the professional 3D circuit is not exactly gigantic and if not led by ethics, sheer embarrassment and lack of work (yes, reputation is still a player) will lead to purchases of XSI’s regular packages.
========

You must keep in mind the simple fact that the ones willing to pursue their careers this way **DO NOT**, I repeat, do not need this new suggested marketing policy to do so, they are **already** doing it with pirated copies of advanced! On the other hand, companies willing to hire such "professionals" will continue to do so regardless of their hiree use of a pirate or a learning version.

As I said in my letter what will leverage the market is the exact same thing that leverages the market today: ethics (on both sides: contractor and contracted).

Cheers,

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 18:33

 
[Responder]

That would have been nice - Sadly, no one spoke to me about any of this.

Softimage had no conversation with me at all.

I think that says it all - don't you?

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 18:51

 
[Responder]

Well, nevermind.... you guys can get all your training from DT now, because it's very unlikely that I will ever produce any more XSI titles.

I've learned my lesson.

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 20:01

 
[Responder]

Firstly, your letter while extremely long does nothing. Simply put, there is a large market worldwide that endears to want to do graphics and be it with 3D applictions or not there is a cost to do so. Simply put, as I'm sure many have covered it the responsibility of learning an application isn't on the developer. However what a developer does to entice people to their software is up to them.

Frankly, Softimage has done an amazing thing offering foundation at $495. This price, blows every package out of the water and frankly, for the extra money to go to essentials it is going to be hard to justify that need unless you need to do compositing or hair as examples. There is no excuse for piracy, and if you want to jump in the fray you go with what you can afford or suck it up and stretch the credit card and make it a sincere effort to justify the expense.

Secondly, I can't see where you come from on support from XSI. From my perspective they are great. Not only do they treat me like a professional, they have shown speed in their resolutions. For example, I had an issue with my dongle and I didn't get harrassed and pushed off reinstalling drivers and BS like most other vendors do, I was simply told I would have a new one and it arrived the next day to the opposite side of the country.

I really think you need to change your perspective because no matter how inconvenient it is to learn something, it is always going to be that way whether you want to do CG, or become a doctor or simply attend art college.

jclark | 02/12/2006, 20:49

 
[Responder]

Wow you complain a lot Muttley. no offense.

The mod tool is free and has all the features of advanced. I cant disagree more with the "you need the latest and greatest to learn the software" , you cant be more wrong. You need to be a problem solver and innovator if you want to get into 3d. You yourself said in this thread that you are a beginner hobbyist yet you complain that you are somehow handicapped to learn 3d because you dont have access to the pro level tools in xsi advanced?

The basics you can learn in any package even the free ones. Dont be so fixated on the feature lists.

my 2 cents.

Ali T | 02/12/2006, 20:49

 
[Responder]

Well at least it gives the idea that Softimage doesn't care for those that cared about XSI... I mean, look at Luxology.... for years Dan Ablan was the sole force on making LW Books, teaching and exposing LW in a way that the LW manuals couldn't even reach, when the Lux guys left Newtek and started Luxology they suported Dan to make training material for Modo, this alone tells alot about a company IMO.

Whenever 3Dtutorial released a new set of training the forums praised it as the best training for XSI (and they are), how can a company not see this? Shame on Softimage on this one.

I understand you point and back it up, even if it means loosing a great tutorial developer for XSI.

Synopse | 02/12/2006, 20:50

 
[Responder]

Just to be clear I'm not the first person who has been eaten alive and thrown to the dogs by the Softimage corporate machine.

Let me go on record by saying that I can fully understand and appreciate why they have decided to support DT and not 3dtutorial (or any other 3rd party vendor for that matter). The fact is that DT is a good company, I've met them, I like them - no hard feelings. They've got deeper pockets than I do and are able to do things that I can't, so at the end of the day if I were in Soft's place I would have done the same thing.

Remember, I am a one man band and have done all of this by myself with no help from anyone.

Still, over the years myself (and other 3rd party providers) have been good to Softimage, and I supported them when few others wanted to. Now that everyone has come onboard, trying to get every last crumb of the educational pie they have turned their backs me, someone who has been a good friend to them.

So, Softimage has turned someone who was a friend into someone who has lost all desire to help them in anyway -- was that good idea on their part? Well, you be the judge.

One thing is for sure, some balance would have been nice. However, the result has been that Softimage has decided to give support to one while hurting the others. Hmmmm, with friends like this who needs an enemy?

I've lost my warm and fuzzy feeling for Softimage and yes, perhaps it's the knife in my back that's causing me to feel this way.

But like I said, I'm not the first person who has been treated in such a manner and I'm not likely to be the last, others will follow I am sure.

So DT and Softimage WIN and 3dtutorial and others lose.

Happy Days.

Cest la vie.

Joe Saltzman
Director
3dtutorial.com
New Jersey, USA
Ask about our 3D Head/Face Scanning Service!

Joe Saltzman | 02/12/2006, 20:51

 
[Responder]

Hello jclark,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree and I have no problem with that at all!!

Differently than you, I do believe that my long letter has achieved something, even if despisable under your eyes. At least it managed to open a discussion in which you took your time to contribute and was read 493 times in a few hours so far.

What I find very, very sad when anyone challenges, discusses or brings new ideas to the table regarding sales marketing strategies is that kind of immediate reaction like the proponent is defending piracy. NO!!! No, Sir, no! I am not defending piracy!!!!!!!! No matter how good a job SoftImage has done by selling Foundation for $495, it **does not** change the simple fact that a highschool kid interested in Economics or Medicine or something totally unrelated is allowed to by the learning version of Advanced for $175, while other people honestly and truly interested in learning XSI, buying books and training kits are simply ignored by the current marketing policy. If you think ignoring people interested in your product is wise, that's up to you.

Some people here seem to be missing the point totally!! Just because something is good, it doesn't mean it can't be improved. Also, my letter to SI did not include all the discussion that came with this interesting thread and its main objective was to offer a fresh perspective from a different point of view. They might trash it right away, that's their right just as is mine to have my opinion.

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 20:51

 
[Responder]

Hello AliT,

None taken!

Well, it is my time to say "you are totally wrong" if you think you really understood my letter. IT WAS NOT about complaining at all!!! It was about showing a reality which cannot be contested, neither by you or me or anybody else. The reality is that as I said above, a high school kid who couldn't care less about SoftImage is entitled to learn the full package for $175, while other students not enrolled in any institution but spending their time, energy and money on XSI educational tools, the ones truly interested in the software, are not entitled the same benefits. That's all. That's simple. And that's a fact.

My intentions are the best possible! Do you really think it would be wise to apply for any position in a company by approaching them in a whining mood? What I want is to see the XSI user base expand, to see it being adopted by more and more studios and professionals. If you think that ignoring prospecting customers and future evangelists (such as yourself seem to be) is a good marketing strategy, than I'm glad you're not SoftImage's MKT director. No offense!

Cheers,

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 20:51

 
[Responder]

Nah mate you dont understand. I am all for software training being affordable. XSI for $149 is the cheapest learning edition for students currently.

For the rest of the folks not enrolled in a school fulltime there IS the mod tool. which is totally free. I know where you are coming from and i too would love to have access to educational version even though I am out of school now but I think by law in order to sell educational versions of software you need to get proof of education. its not just Softimage its pretty much every company in the world who sells student software that ask for proof or registration.

once again , there is the mod tool to learn on for free. And you should be thankful it does not have the godawful watermarks Maya PLE has.

Ali T | 02/12/2006, 21:36

 
[Responder]

I understand your point Ali, but what I am saying is that technology is changing the way people live their lives!!!!! If a review of current legislation is needed, so be it!! It is already happening in several fields, why not in software licensing?? My point is: education is education no matter what! It doesn't matter if you go to a school or if the school goes to you!

Just to illustrate, I recently got in touch with CDIA (Center for Digital Imaging Arts at Boston University) and they sent me a brochure with a CD showcasing their students reels. Oh my gawd!!! It really got me scared! Not because they teach Maya or anything but because the quality level of their students' reels was extremely disappointing! Honestly, I believe that a full Digital Tutors course is way more advanced! And if you follow suit and invest on 3D Tutorial stuff (I never purchased from them but I have downloaded a few demo lessons), you'll end up with way more knowledge than CDIA's graduates! You don't believe me?? Check it out yourself!

Now... again... (I feel like I'm beating a dead horse)... CDIA's students are entlited to all advantages of SoftImage's learning packages while people studying via DT or 3D Tutorial don't! So what? Do we need to change the legislation? Good, let's do it!

Leonardo | 02/12/2006, 21:36

 
[Responder]

Just wanted to chime in and say that Softimage has not turned their backs on any of the training material providers,nor are they playing favorites. If that was the case the only products that you would see here http://softimage.com/education/books_and_videos/default.aspx would only be filled with Digital Tutors content. The same goes for any of their hardware partners be it HP, DELL,ATI,& Nvidia.

I have spoken with Joe offline, and as he has also mentioned here, he can understand why Softimage would choose to make a business decision to have Digital Tutors provide the training DVD for V6 when it ships. Muttley as other have mentioned the ModTool is totaly free without any time limits on it http://www.softimage.com/community/xsi_mod_tool/default.aspx

XSIWILL | 03/12/2006, 00:01

 
[Responder]

Wow, fascinating topic. Clear points of view and yet no clear 'winners' (for lack of a better word).

Let's be clear. We are embroiled in this issue because of our fanatical love for this software bundle. Let's keep that in mind. Let's also keep in mind that 20 guys in a forum aren't going to figure out the holy grail of marketing for a multi-million dolllar 3d company like Softimage. This thread is doomed to run in circles because of the lack of vision on each side. Not an insult, it's just perspective.

My $.02 from the thread I have in the Halflife 2 modding forum:

"Softimage pulled off (arguably) the single greatest coup in the gaming world by getting the most mod friendly game company out there to use XSI and dump 3dsmax. They then released the great 4.2 mod tool and export tool.... and that was it.

When you build that kind of momentum, you absolutely cannot let that fall to the backburner unless you just don't know any better. If you don't have anyone who is a part of or understands the whole mod community and how it grows and contributes to the RETAIL gaming industry, you better learn.

Here's a hint: 3dsMax isn't the #1 3d creation tool in studios because it's only $100, a breeze to learn and use, or because of it's stellar marketing...

I started on XSI 3.0 specifically because of the buzz about Valve redoing their production around XSI. I was coming off of a hugely popular HL1 mod, and we were developing our HL2 mod, waiting through the VALVE delays. I was actively recruiting people with XSI knowledge (which was difficult) and convincing 3dsmax people to learn XSI (which was more difficult).
We actually had 5-6 new to XSI modelers over the past year, but when support for XSI 5+ never appeared, and we were hitting limits in the mod tool, guess what happened? I'm back to being the only XSI user with 5 MAX guys."

I know it's really not about training tools, but it's still along the same lines. I hope.

sulsa | 03/12/2006, 00:02

 
[Responder]

I think Sulsa makes a good point. The mod tool could've revolutionized game modding and help make it legit but unfortunately it failed to deliver. I don't really pretend to know why, and as a user and fan of the software it is hard to understand but I do have some guesses as to the reasons behind this.
i don't think anyone would disagree that 3ds max is the number one package of choice for the modding community by an overwhelming margin. It is also safe to say that same overwhelming margin of modders didn't pay for their license. So when the Mod Tool came out I was really looking forward to see the inpack this would have on the community. Surely legit access to a very powerful package like XSI with the support for the most popular modding platform such as Source wouldn't be ignored.
Unfortunately those who did try to switch faced several problems. For one there were no easy migration tools from 3ds max to XSI and as it happens the two packages are rather different. There was also no easy way to transfer data between XSI and Max. No was there a resource of beginner and introductory training made ready to facilitate the switch. And perhaps more importantly after the release of the modtool the hype machine stoped, there was no incentive to switch. And when you talk about a largely armature userbase these things become even more important than usual.
And the reason why this is important is because the modding community is the resource bank of future employees it is also the starting point for many up-and-coming studios, guess which software they are going with.

As for the educational content I still haven't made up my mind on how I feel about it. When I first started learning 3d I honestly felt like people should teach me for free, write tutorials and record videos and a lot of people did and still do it to this day. (like the wonderful guys over at 3dbuzz) However, I later found myself studying at VFS (and thats not free by a long shot) followed by a relatively short time teaching there myself. I worked and gained experience and expertise, and as someone who really loves to teach I would like nothing more than to put it onto a training DVD.
This does however raise the question of what is affordable training. Should this expertise and experience be affordable? Is it wise for the instructor and for the industry in general to make advanced training affordable? Should someone who does not have the patience to save up 60 to 100 dollars for a DVD be entitled to training? Should someone show at least some effort to be a part of this saturated industry?

I really don't know, but these questions keep bothering me from time to time

Ubisoft Cinematics
Character TD

ShadowM8 | 03/12/2006, 00:04

 
[Responder]

Have you looked into the policy? I haven't , however I think if you showed a registration slip to any course that showed you taking 3D that you would also receive the discount. Granted, being in an educational facility (be it college, high school, etc..) be aware that these are proveable situations and thus very low on the percentage of the software being used illegitamately. What you can't have is anyone in the mood to save money and be able to buy the software at an academic price.

I will say that is SI has locked their policy only to those in a full time curriculum, then I would support your cause in having them open up the learning channel to allow those in a proveable academic study (be it full-time or part-time) to leverage the discount.

I wasn't suggesting you were supporting piracy ( I didn't mean to if it came across as such) but unfortunately your letter carried an argument we've all heard before and really it's a case of SI needing to draw the line somewhere as to who to give discounted prices to.

jclark | 03/12/2006, 00:05

 
[Responder]

Heya Sulsa!

I had a ball reading your post!!! Really! :0

Trust me, I do know what you are talking about when you bring games and the game community to the table and create a parallel with the "educational" marketing strategy. Several years ago I was involved in the gaming scene myself and acted as mediator among niche communities, developers and the then major gaming distributor in Brazil.

You hit the nail in the head! Your post, if you forgive my foul language, can be resumed to two points:
1) Like it or not, we're all (you and myself included) at least partially SI brown nosers, lacking the impartially needed for such discussion (and I agree! though I must say it's because XSI really is the best! hehe), thus we will get nowhere. Not to mention we don't have the power to implement anything.
2) SI's marketing team, even if a good one, is not without its faults, sometimes silly ones which can waste a loooot of energy and opportunities to really expand their user base.

The only thing I shall add is that I truly hope that we won't have to wait for the day when brick layered schools will be a mere formality and the great majority of learning is done via electronic means to actually see SoftImage (and all the other software developers/publishers) understanding ( thus taking action), that a student is a student regardless of where he/she studies his chosen craft.

Cheers,

Leonardo | 03/12/2006, 00:06

 
[Responder]

"So DT and Softimage WIN and 3dtutorial and others lose."

Then we all lose !

Because at then end what we want is to be more and more efficient with the tool we use...

The more tutorials you can get, the better...Monopoly are never a good thing... I do like DT and their way of teaching but diversity is what make the wealthyness

So once again I'm very sad to read that 3DTutorial will never do anything with softimage again...

So be it !

PS

Joe, did you ever think doing something about Blender ?!

Garfield39 | 03/12/2006, 11:51

 
[Responder]

This is unfortunate, very unfortunate. I am a Maya and Max user who ended up learning XSI because I downloaded a trial version earlier this year and fell in love with it. I never purchased any XSI tutorials from you mainly because I didnt know about 3dtutorial.com until recently, so I ended up purchasing the intro to XSI 4.2 by DT. Although it was very good, I quickly picked up XSI and learned it to the same degree that I know Max and Maya. I never purchased another DT XSI tutorial because their tutorials are too basic. When you look at their tutorials they pretty much a rehashed narration of what the help docs say which makes them feel like a rip off. If anyone wants to find out what Im talking about, check out their mental ray tutorials for Maya, biggest waste of time and money IMHO. I pretty much got to the level im at in XSI because of the help docs and my own investigating into tools and functions in XSI. I have browsed your site and it is chalk full of advanced tutorials that offer REAL training in production situations. I mean, look at the character creation tutorial you guys released recently for XSI-freaking amazing from the demos I saw. DT has nothing, and I mean NOTHING that even comes within 10% of what that tutorial teaches. DT is all about basics and how to use the interface, etc., not that thats bad; basics are probably the most important things to learn, but they leave you hanging after that and you need to go elsewhere for training, like Gnomon for example. If anything you should have gotten priority, then Gnomon, and then maybe 3 or 4 others before DT. I feel sorry for the people who have to learn XSI 6 solely from the DT tuts because all theyre doing is reading the help files, doing what the help files say, and then make tutorials on them; anyone can pretty much do that if theyre getting paid well. It really is sad, but whatever, that was SI's decision and they'll find out sooner or later how bad of a decision it was. I wish you luck Joe with 3d tutorial and I think I will purchase the character creation tutorial, though I already know how to make realistic characters with XSI/ZBrush2, I will do it knowing that I will prob learn something new along the way and be supporting an industry vet like yourself. Take care and good luck.

jak carver | 03/12/2006, 11:52

 
[Responder]

I have to agree with Jak_carver. I did not have the benfit of being experienced with 3d packages and would still have been floundering in XSI without the tuts at 3d Tutorial.

Chempro | 03/12/2006, 11:53

 
[Responder]

…3D is the main "creative hobby" nowadays, and all you need (beside a pc) is a software, so piracy and p2p can't be stopped. Should softimage release a 50$ version ?

now, I am not sure this is important to professional users : even if cr@cked software can help to test drive an app, sooner or later, as a professional, you need efficient learning material and support. So my pov is that the best weapon against piracy for a software editor is very good paper manuals and very good customer support.
On the support side I think it is ok (I can phone my reseller for any question, he is very responsive) but on the manual side, I must say I have been very disapointed. xsi manuals just scratch the surface and after that you have to dig in the help files. they are good (except the mental ray ones), but I prefer to read a real book from page one to the end before browsing the help…

toma

toma | 03/12/2006, 11:54

 
[Responder]

Here is my

Open Letter to Softimage
from Stefan Andersson

Here is something that I don't understand from my POV here in Sweden.

1.) XSI Foundation is only $500. The features inside FND will take you 90% the way with any commercial that you do. I would say that 90% of all the work I have done could have been done with only FND.
So why doesnt people buy it? (this is sweden..)

2.) XSI is developing fast and has a really good base for future features due to how the underlying struckture is made. Maya/Max is in a hole called "Autodesk" that has a baaaaaaaaad track record for what they have done with other software vendors that they bought. When people see the updates for both softwares they are wondering " so why is it called 8.0/9.0 again??? "

3.) The Essentials license is still very affordable for a commercial company with all that you get from it. You also get a compositor which at least can make advanced pre comps for testing. With others you need a separate program which then adds to the cost.

4.) It clearly outperforms all of the softwares in terms of speed and use (and mental ray performance). You only need to sit down and test the others to realize how much faster everything goes in XSI. In maya (which is my nearest comparisment since I work with it now adays) tons and tons of features has workarounds or NEED a mel script in order to work properly. In XSI I rarely use scripts for GENERAL TOOLS.... which you need in maya....

So whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy..... isn't anything changing?? Why is all the new companys buying Maya? Why is it that people I meet at companys not even aware of XSI?? It's about physical "I'M HERE" factor. Internet ads just doesn't do it. Young startup kids see it as a obscure 3D application as Strata Studio or Truspace... that's the sad fact. They never read about it in the magazines. If you pick up Cinefex which hold the major releases of special effects films you never see XSI or Softimage mentioned.
Here in sweden they havent even been in the country and made a show in over 5 years (which is in a way a hole career for some people). Sweden might be a tiny country, but we do a lot of highend stuff in both Games and Commercials. We have a lot of game companys, that probably has (all together) around 1000 seats of 3D applications. That alone is quite a good deal, which now Autodesk has 95% of.

So why isn't our reseller doing anything? or why isnt AVID doing anything??????????????

I personally have given up here with trying to get people to use XSI. It's no point and people start to look at me with a funny face. I'm 100% maya user now, it used to be totaly different. And I can't think of any other company than my former company (which has only 2 3D seats) that is using XSI.

my bitter 0.02 SEK

StefanA | 03/12/2006, 11:54

 
[Responder]

and XSI foundation is $500 so avid already did something huge....
Companies will come to XSI later. The first step was to get all the maya users buy their foundation personal license, it's almost done.

janimatic | 03/12/2006, 11:55

 
[Responder]

Dear Janimatic I don't know...

Because even if maya user buy FND XSI that won't make XSI the logical choice until somehow XSI is known by newcomers... these are the one that will make the market of tomoroww...

In my trainning job I'm facing my bosses who tend to say "We got to train people for what the market look like today".
I rather say," we have to make the market of tomorow by training people on tools that will be the logical choise then..."

It's two side of the problem... today most FX houses uses MAYA or even Max (maybe more Games Houses use Max) but if tomorrow, it's easier to find people trainned on XSI then they might switch...

Now how do you tell someone who want to be in the 3D buisness to learn a soft that isn't known as it should be... that's the question...

Marketing to the largest possible target would be the best move for softimage...Offering some Licence in contests, or in lotery, offering licence to school with some good tutorials etc...Why not a crasy month...XSI for only 200 $ for anyone...yeah I know... it's impossible...but see my point... Xsi is not on every lips and it should be !

Who knows maybe Autodesk buying Maya will help a bit, but I don't think so... soon or later they'll come with a new software (a Mayax Something...) and an angry marketing attitude (as they always did...). We then should be prepared... They'll be back !

Garfield39 | 03/12/2006, 11:55

 
[Responder]

Hi Will,

Thanks for your comments. Despite your example, I strongly disagree as this is not my perception of the situation at all. I am very thankful for the exposure that Softimage gives to 3dtutorial on their website, don't get me wrong. On the other hand, this exposure amounts to very little in the way of actual sales, so overall it has little positive impact, whereas what Softimage has done in a very real way has caused overwhelming negative impact. So, Softimage giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other.

Joe Saltzman | 03/12/2006, 11:56

 
[Responder]

Buying a few Digital tutors CD's and spending 50 ,000 to 100,000 $ on a 4 year or Grad program are 2 very different things. I Strongly disagreee with your point that the educational versions should be sold to just anybody. As far as piracy goes what good is learning a system of a program that you will run to the ground. Do peopel pirate yes. Will they be able to get a job just looking at a couple of digital tutors CD's NO!! I have been fortunate to have worked professionally and I already have interested employers for when I graduate this December. Videos are not the same as having industry people teaching you in person and critiquing yiour work. (or tearing it apart bit by bit) Even taxi drivers here in NY are learning Maya and they think they will be good enough to get work. Yeah right! It is my opinion that it takes 2 years of full time study ( or real world work) to get competent enough to get a professional job. buying a few DT training materials should no way get you educational material. All companies have educational pricing. These are for schols that are certified.

talent103 | 03/12/2006, 11:57

 
[Responder]

talent103,

You're entitled to your opinion and it should be respected, but just as you criticized mine, here's what I had to say about yours...

It is the most retrograde of ALL opinions I read here so far! The level of performance a student will achieve has NOTHING to do with his rights to pursue his study. And you contradict yourself, because if only the people who spend $100,000 in a two year course will have what it takes to become a professional, then why the ones buying the "stupid" Digital Tutors, 3D Tutorial, Gnomon and similar training kits should be prevented from buying the Learning Editions?? They're no threat to you or the job you will get "after you graduate". So why are you scared? Why should you be scared of letting the knowledge spread? The taxi drivers will never be as good as you, remember?? So why not let them keep their "silly" dreams and study purchasing training kits and with the dignity of also purchasing XSI's Learning Versions? Why is that??? Or is it because you spent a $100,000 to learn and that makes you special? Or is it because SoftImage should just be mean to people who wants to learn but cannot afford to spend $100,000 to study 3D? Or do you take personal satisfaction in seeing knowledge denied to the "lesser" people?

I apologize if this sounds a little personal, but REGARDLESS of the field, every time I hear someone trying to justify why only a selected few should be entitled to education, all of the hair in the back of my head go up in unison.

Leonardo | 03/12/2006, 11:57

 
[Responder]

You are blowing this out of proportion!!! Softimage is NOT I repeat NOT making Digital Tutors the only sole provider of 3rd party training materials. As I type this 3DQuakers are in the works of producing more training material for XSI.

XSIWILL | 03/12/2006, 11:58

 
[Responder]

I hope this post won't come off as too offensive to Joe or anyone else, but here goes...

Quote from: cmagic on Today at 02:12:04am
So DT and Softimage WIN and 3dtutorial and others lose.

What "others" exactly? A very short time ago if I recall correctly there were almost NO others at all, as far as training providers for XSI are concerned. If Softimage had anything to do with the increased interest of these new training material providers, we as a community should be thankful to them, as it will surely pay off in the near future.

Training providers coming in to the market… that fact alone would have surely been more of an impact on your business than SI making a deal with DT for example to provide on-site training in Siggraph or other events, no?

Obviously with more training providers getting into the market, this would inevitably mean that your business would be far off of its more prosperous days when it was the only notable training provider for XSI.

I’m sorry to hear that you’re on the losing side of this whole thing, but if by ‘others’ losing you meant other training providers and XSI users in general I couldn’t disagree more.

I’m very happy that DigitalTutors is on the market, as I know they have very good introductory training materials which are quite essential when one of Softimage’s primary aims is to bring or convert new users; and others such as 3dquakers.com who seem to have some killer advanced rigging and other tutorials available by now. I personally hope that Gnomon will follow this trend and present us some other XSI training too.

So the XSI community in general is on the winning side, and it seems quite natural to me that a business such as 3Dtutorial.com which was on such a rare position just a few years ago would be on the losing side. But I’m disappointed to see that you’re giving Softimage this much credit for your ‘loss’.

gent k | 03/12/2006, 11:59

 
[Responder]

Boa sorte e espero que vc tenha uma oportunidade incrivel
Catita

catita | 03/12/2006, 19:43

 
So sorry [Responder]

Leo, tentei so so hard acompanhar step by step.
Mas está too difficult to me...
Na moral da história desejo o mesmo da Catita aqui acima.
E com fé!

Titatróia | 03/12/2006, 20:06

 
[Responder]

Pardon Talent, but not all of us are living in NY or US or civilised part of the world for that matter. Here in Poland, we don't have schools teaching 3D not to mention certified ones. All we have are Internet schools that are way too expensive and material created by 3DTutorial or DT or others.
Yes, XSI F. for 600 EUR is a great deal but learning it is another story. Especially when you are overwhelmed by the user base of MaxYa as well as its self-paced learning aids. Staying legal is a challenge here, especially when noone cares for XS-what?
Somehow, there seems to be a studio here in Poland that without a "full time study" managed to release a Academy-nominee short animation. Now they are a full time CG studio with well developed pipline, which includes XSI and othere high-end applications.
Now any punk can steal an application or tutorial to make home-made doodles. No problem. The real challenge is to stay legal, learn effectively and become a good artist in a crapty country like Poland with no support of any kind. Some of us even promote using XSI as an ultimate 3D tool in our own home-grown communities.
I'd like some support, although I know that all the cr@cking groups out there are just waiting for this.

gordy | 04/12/2006, 00:00

 
[Responder]

Obrigado, Catita!
Obrigado, Tita!

Beijo,

Leonardo | 04/12/2006, 00:01

 
[Responder]

1 No I dont take it personally we just disagree. Maya has a personal learning edition that is free but it renders with a watermark and you cant take files from the learning edition to the regular version and vice versa. That would be the solution. There is no threat to me at all. If you are that good then more power to you. I am confident in my abilities and continue to learn every day. You will never stop learning whether it is real flow or Zbrush or digital fusion when shake is discontinued. The point is that educational versions should be for those who are in enrolled in an acredited school of higher learning. Period. Why should EVERYONE be able to pay $300 and the Studios have to pay $6,000? If you dont like it then dont just throw rocks at Softimage do it to Maya, After affects, Max etc etc. I am sorry if this makes your hair stand on end.

2 Digital Tutors is not stupid. They are Very Good and Joe's stuff is superb. My point is that that alone will not get you to a point where you are ready to get a job

talent103 | 04/12/2006, 00:03

 
[Responder]

I do feel for you. I dont have a solution for you This is a field where you cant just use a paper and pencil and then just let your imagination run wild. (actually this is the foundation of all 3D art) You need a computer that is fast enough that can handle some decent renders so you can show some professional stuff and that costs money. Not to mention software which is not just XSI but photoshop or any other compositor. I wish you well.

talent103 | 04/12/2006, 00:05

 
[Responder]

i think eastern europeans have show a lot of amazing talent.
The economy make the situation unfair, but there is no doubt about those talent.
I understand the 2d to 3d switch has been difficult but i guess there are amazing 3d talent in eastern europe.

janimatic | 04/12/2006, 00:05

 
[Responder]

I agree!! One of the best teachers I had was an ex animator from ILM. She has forgoton more about animation than most people know. The great thing is that she was clasically trained in the arts and 2d animation before she ever got into 3D. She was from prague and she looks like a tall cover model. She was not the stereotype 3D geek. But there is a great emphasis on the fine arts there that is lacking here in the U.S.
John

talent103 | 04/12/2006, 00:06

 
[Responder]

Let me explain sth to you. No offence, because it isn't personal.
You live in US, right. You get XSI F. for 549 $, right? What's is your basic salary at McDonalds? 6$/hour, maybe?
I live in Poland, so get the same application for approx the same but in EUR. Now, basic salary here is approx. 2$.
You have more than 200 year worth democracy with all it's benefits, We 17 years with all its drawbacks.
This is just the beginning of the differences that matter. So, 3Dtutorial, DT, 3DQuakers are all I can get. I don't need anything from SI. All I need them to do is to support those guys well enough, so that I and some of my fellow lesser people would get all the education we need.
Artist is born out of it's imagination, creativity, talent, and perseverance not a piece of paper.
In other words, I don't need 100'000 $ education to be great artist. SI seems to forgot that once a car was build and not from a do-it-yourself kit. I know market is in Nort America (US, Canada), some part of Europe and Asia.
You see, people who want to 3D, will 3D no matter what. It is just a matter of whose hand we fall in. Maxya or ...? Today SI is facing a great challenge because Maxya is at its downfall, and XSI is peaking. What they do today, will result within next several years. I don't think they can let newcomer like East Europe pass by. Our multimedia market is growing very fast. Our filmmaking faces some major overhaul, cause technically it sucks. It is just a big plane to take.
Ok, it sounds a bit melodramatic, I know. I just think SI is too defensive at it's market approach.

gordy | 04/12/2006, 00:09

 
[Responder]

Yes it does suck. And I feel for you. But Maya is not any cheaper in poland. How is maya supporing you more than XSI? They both have the same educational pricing. The reason Maya is used is because like it or not Maya is the industrry standard. What XSI needs to do is what they are doing. Coming out with things like Motor and Gator that leaves Maya in the dust. If they come out with a new awesome and modern particle system things can change really quickly. Especially since Maya is now autodesk. I dont see much innovation coming from them in the future unless they rewrite all the code.

talent103 | 04/12/2006, 00:10

 
[Responder]

hi Muttley_mG,

>>every time I hear someone trying to justify why only a selected few should be entitled to >>education, all of the hair in the back of my head go up in unison.

klaus | 04/12/2006, 00:13

 
[Responder]

So is 3D Tutorial no longer going to make training for XSI? Please say it ain't so!

Did Digital Tutors sign a deal with softimage or something? XSIbase.com is controlled by the
same people who run 3D tutorial right? Any honest answers here?

Wacom | 04/12/2006, 00:14

 
[Responder]

1. So is 3D Tutorial no longer going to make training for XSI? Please say it ain't so!

Sorry, it's so.

2. XSIbase.com is controlled by the
same people who run 3D tutorial right? Any honest answers here?

XSIBASE.COM has NOTHING whatsoever to do with 3dtutorial.com - NOTHING.

and that's the 100% honest truth.

Joe Saltzman | 04/12/2006, 00:14

 
[Responder]

Sorry to hear that Joe. I believe it is very important to have quality training available books and vids and broad variety of skill level, even how mighty the tool were. People do change tools and need training, not only kids making coolest 3d monsters ever. I have few items from 3D tutorial and gems among the stuff I've seen.

nRatio | 04/12/2006, 00:15

 
[Responder]

What Softimage needs to do right now IMO is to flood the market like Alias did with Maya some years ago.

Maya and Max reached a stage were they are the dominant 3D softwares, users will upgrade even if the new features aren't really that exciting, sure not all the users will upgrade right away, but sooner or later they will. In this department Autodesk knows that inovation is not really a driving force for now, the second runners are the ones that need to make an impression, not the guys that lead the pack.

In late 2002 Alias did an amazing marketing campaign that got them thousands of new users of their software, they aimed to the Game Mod community and they hit the right spot.

Unreal 2003 came with Maya PLE bundled, on a time where Max clearly dominated the game market and the Mod community, Alias managed to get in, not only that but not even one year later, UT2004 special DVD edition came with HOURS of FREE training from 3DBuzz, and it was GOOD training too, it taugh everything you needed to know to get up and running not only in Maya but also in getting your content (Characters, Vehicles, Weapons, Animations, Textures and entire Levels) into UT2004, and they even provided free exporters not only for Maya PLE but also for the regular Maya.

Even though Softimage did a nice thing with XSI Mod, compared to what Alias did, it was not even close. UT200x series are probably the most Mod friendly game/engine, of course this also helped, but only 3 years later after HL2 came out we saw proper training dedicated to it, and it's not even made from Softimage and last but not least, it's not free.

UT2007 is hitting the road sooner or later, can I guess that Mod community will hit on it like a Bear hits on honey? GOW is showcasing what the new engine can deliver, let me assure you that the entire Mod community is drooling right now and dying to get their hands on that engine, and guess what tools they will use to make content for it... also remember Mod kids today are the Industry pros of tomorrow.

Being HL2 such a big thing for Softimage, I think Softimage should had tought a bit more about it, it looked like an impressive measure to provide the free Mod tool 3 years ago, it quickly faded partially because the lack of "support" IMO.

It doesn't matter if XSI is vastly superior to anything out there, if people dont use it because they dont know or see no major interest in using it, being superior means nothing.

XSI 4 brought some cool DVDs to aid the learning process, even though they are good training, they were somehow made to go see after we already knew some XSI. They felt short on real production scenarios, and this is where 3DTutorial comes in with their training.

Why doesn't Softimage aproached Joe to make a real case Tutorial DVD to bundle with XSI, sounds expensive I know, but how much does the ads in CGtalk and some magazines cost? How much does a XSI tech party cost's and only few are able to attend to it... I'm not trying to teach Softimage how to make marketing, I'm simply wondering why companies prefer to invest thousands in certain things, when probably they could spend that money other ways that would be more beneficial to the vast majority of users IMO.

Synopse | 04/12/2006, 01:35

 
[Responder]

And so history repeats itself over and over again. Conclusions taken from this thread:

1) You will never have a chance to become a 3D professional unless you enroll in a 2-year course.
2) If you spend $500 or $1,000 or maybe even a little more in training kits and books, you should not be allowed to purchase XSI's learning versions. That privilege should be restricted to those who spend $100,000 on their education.
3) Your intention to learn XSI can only be true and honest if you devote your full time and all your financial resources to it.
4) SoftImage's marketing approach is the correct one and somehow, even if it's not perfect, even if XSI is far from being the market leader, nothing should be changed and there is no room for improvement.
5) There are no such things as adverse conditions, it's you that's not trying hard enough! And if you come from a less favorable part of the world, well... we're sorry and wish you the best.
6) If you're working hard in the real world trying to save your money after all the bills so that you can have a decent computer, books and training kits... if you're spending 2 or 3 hours of your busy day to study XSI, you should not be considered a studen